Jeff Ma
Hey folks, we have some exciting news for you all. We have just launched a brand new company founded on the tenets of our Love as a Business Strategy philosophy, the same philosophy that you've grown to know and love. This new venture is called Culture Plus. Culture Plus is a culture as a service company that provides training experiences, consulting services, and digital tools to help companies achieve high performing and high reliability cultures and teams. To learn more, visit culture-plus.com. That's culture-plus.com. And now, let's get to the show. Today's episode is a conversation with a Adette Contreras, a CEO and entrepreneur who runs two different companies at once we dig into how she approaches culture in her roles, and specifically, we talk about the importance of genuine empowerment in order to be successful. It's an extra relatable episode for anyone who works in a service based industry. Enjoy.

Hello, and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy. A podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business that we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the centre of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma, and today I'm joined with co host and co author Hartman crime. Frank Danna. How's it going? Frank?

Frank Danna
Just going so good. Thank you so much for asking.

Jeff Ma
That your intimate voice like you're kind of.

Frank Danna
Thank you, Jeff.

Jeff Ma
There we go.

Adette C. Contreras
I was into it. Yeah.

Jeff Ma
And that voisey here on the show today is someone we have the incredible pleasure of being joined by co founder and CEO at Tinsel Experiential design, also the founder at In Wild Pursuit, Adette Contreras. Adette Welcome to the show.

Adette C. Contreras
Hi, thank you. Thank you so much for having me

Jeff Ma
Absolutely. And I normally give a much longer introduction, but there's a lot of amazing things you've done. I want to actually give you a chance to talk about some of that yourself. But before that, we do an icebreaker

Frank Danna
Come on, I thought you were gonna forget. And here you are with it.

Adette C. Contreras
Yeah, okay.

Jeff Ma
I'm not gonna I'm gonna ask a simple question. you'll both get the same question. I'll make Frank go first. You have all his time to prepare. So, Frank, today's question is, what's something specific you're looking forward to in 2022?

Frank Danna
There's an NFT that's dropping in mid to late January, called invisible friends. And it'll probably be the first NFT that I mint, with my own money. I've gotten some airdrops for other Kryptos that I can use to mint, some NF T's. But this will be one that I'm actually putting money into. It's got a great team incredible, incredible design and artwork. So that's definitely something I'm looking forward to in the very early stages of 2022. Jeff, thank you so much for asking.

Jeff Ma
If there were in audio only version of the eyeroll. I will execute it now if you're on the video use anyways, Adette. What are you looking forward to in 2022?

Adette C. Contreras
I couldn't eyeroll because Frank was so excited about it. I'm like, Oh, he's like,

Frank Danna
I cannot wait. Yeah, it's so cool.

Adette C. Contreras
I was so excited for you. Similar lines. One of the best books that I read recently is called Black Leopard, Red Wolf, written by Marlon James. And the second in his trilogy is coming out in February something here like, tick tock, tick tock. It's December books coming out. He wrote another book called A Brief History of Seven Killings, which I haven't yet read. But Black leopard, Red wolf was, was so heavy was kind of like a fever dream of a book that I kind of have to, you know, pace it. But I'm really looking forward to the second installment of that

Jeff Ma
Good answer. All right. Well, with that aside, that back to you, can you start with yourself, tell us a little about you personally, away from a lot of people define themselves just tied directly to all the things that they've created done. Who is Adette? It's a little challenge for you. Who are you? What's your passion?

Adette C. Contreras
Okay. All right. Well, I was born and raised in the Philippines. It's always such a loaded question. How do you how do you define yourself now go? I was born and raised in the Philippines. So I think that was an incredibly shaping early childhood, I would say because it Did you know I grew up a world away and then being transplanted to the US was, in and of itself an incredibly shocking experience? Right? So moved to the US. I ended up attending a math and science boarding school right outside of Chicago. We were in the middle of cornfields. So nerd alert, and it was called the Illinois Math and Science Academy. And we did a whole lot of calculus, always, always. So from there, yeah, right. I thought I was gonna go into something more along the lines of math and science. And instead, I went into business where I actually met Chris Pitre. And I, that's how we met. And so the book was a particular pleasure for me reading about his first day, and all of his experiences and that is on brand. Yeah, you know, right. I know. That guy. So that's where I met him. And at that point, I was studying for a double major, double minor, marketing and international business, and then Spanish literature, and art and design. And so I think that kind of sums up a whole lot of things. That that does that sate your appetite for who I am?

Frank Danna
Maybe for Jeff, but for me, I want to know what what kind of compelled you to move away from math and science as a focus? And what drew you to the business kind of side of of learning really, like calculators got this? Let me do this, you know, like, what was the

Adette C. Contreras
ultimately I just wasn't smart enough. You know, like, I you get to a certain level and you test into the school and it's crazy to get in and what have you. Um, it's, you know, it's a really small school. There was an article in Wired magazine a few years back, calling it Hogwarts for hackers. And yeah, and a bunch of the alum, you know, invented Yelp, Ask Jeeves, match.com. Like, it's it's just Brainiacs. Go there. And there I was, you know, thought I could hold my own. And I go to school with people that are finding out new ways to slice DNA at the age of 12 13 14. I'm like, Okay, so, so I know how to work hard. And, you know, I have a lot of a lot of varied interests, but when it comes, when it comes down to it, you know, those, those fields and dedication into into medicine at that point, I thought I wanted to go into become a neurosurgeon. And it was just one of those things that that vocation is not for me, you know, I wanted a little bit more of the humanities, I, I was interested in ceramics, you know, so I still throw clay actually, that's outside of work, throw clay and work with my hands a lot. And there's design this design part of me that I couldn't quite fulfill given the maths and the sciences, and my dad is an architect, actually. And he told me, whatever you do, don't go into design, don't go into art. And here I am, kind of a designer kind of person. Kind of a little bit of both, you know, all of it. Yeah.

Jeff Ma
So let me let me segue off of that. So tell us now about your works. Tell us, you know, about Tinsel and In wild pursuit? Tell us what those are. And, and, and more about that, please.

Adette C. Contreras
Sure. So I run into companies, which I feel like you have to be crazy to run one. So I'm still believe so. But also, I'll tell you the story of that in a second. But the first one is called simple experiential design. And we design experiences and events, I actually co founded that with two of my business partners that I also met in college with Chris. And that is going to turn 12 years old in a few months, which is insane to say. The second company is a direct result of a passion project, and just me, again, being incredibly passionate about design and business building. So I found that a second company in 2016, and called In Wild Pursuit, and it is a business strategy and design studio for purpose led and underrepresented entrepreneurs. So it's, you know, much, much smaller. It's, it's more of a passion projects than anything else. But it's one of those things that as you'll get to know me, it had to be done. Right. And that's part of why I named it such a In Wild Pursuit because you're kind of in wild pursuit of this thing that you're so passionate about has to happen. So whether it's the NSPS or, or books, you know, in this case, for me, it's design and business building. I really, you know, just have to do it.

Jeff Ma
I love that. Let me go ahead and like you know, steer us right into the the current here of love as a business strategy. So the show is always looking for kind of that connective tissue out in the world of business, running to companies yourself. I'm really curious. What does like, I guess I'll start with culture, because I don't need to jump to love yet. But you can you can use that word if you want. But let's just talk about culture as you run these businesses, what is your mindset around culture?

Adette C. Contreras
Culture is always so nebulous, right? It's such, it's such the buzzword that people use. And I think it's the number one most important thing when you're building a company, because at the end of the day, everything else is gonna fall into line, if you're really no one who you are, to who you're surrounding yourself with, right. So to talk specifically about Tinsel, because I think that company is really around, you know, it's around experiences and events and like, person to person contact. So what we do there is we create experiences that hopefully, foster genuine human connection, right. And, as we said, at the top of this phone call, you know, given the super relaxing, and chill two years that we've all had, everyone's talking about all of this, like, pent up demand for in person gatherings and experiences and that, you know, that translates to the workplace to people are just like, eager to see their co workers, co workers, again, to be around people to celebrate, to see each other outside of a screen, which is what we're doing now, ironically, but what we're actually hearing is more like pent up desperation, you know, it's to me, it's beyond demand that now people are just desperate to see each other. So I think Tinsel and you know, at being the larger and the more established of the two companies, it's, we're in a really unique position to be able to create those experiences that would health and safety in mind, given everything that's happening right now. So, for us, that culture really stems from the friendship that myself and my two co founders brought into the game by founding this business together, you know, 12 years ago. And I think that type of friendship is double edged, which is a little bit about how love is right, it's double that just cut it to get really ugly. But part of the ugliness is the beauty of being real and honest with each other. Right. And so that type of friendship base allows for that realness and that vulnerability, it gives you space to be who you are, whether that's, you know, making a mistake, or, or landing a huge win for the team and either either capacity, we want to make sure that that's celebrated, because that's who you are. That's who you're going to the table. So I think that sense of camaraderie in that sense of humanity is something we deeply value by nature of what we do.

Jeff Ma
Do you think, would you say, I guess, for Tinsel, since we're on that one? Would you say that culture is like, how do you treat culture from a business perspective? Are you? What's your level of intentionality kind of? What's your, your approach around it when you when you plan for it to strategize around it? What is what is, you said? You, you two co founders, I guess, are you all very, like strategic and planning about? Is it more organic? Or can you talk a little bit about that?

Adette C. Contreras
Yeah, so it's a combination. And I think this is where my strategy in mind comes? Strategy is limited, right? You can plan for something. And you know, I went to undergraduate business school. So they're all these book learning things of like, putting down your values, your mission vision statement, like, yeah, great, put that up on the wall, and everybody reads it and knows what it is and put it in a handbook. But at the end of the day, how does that really affect you on a day to day level on a decision to decision level? And does every person on your team consistently perform with those values in mind, you know that so, for us, it was very intentional. Starting it out, right? We put together our values, we put together our vision, my two business partners, and we come from very diverse backgrounds. As I said, I grew up in the Philippines. My other business partner, she's black and grew up in Virginia. My other business partners white grew up in Long Island. And so the three of us together, you know, we're tattooed and we just looked like the United Colors of Benetton. So whenever people are like, how is it possible? And then when we tell them, Oh, we met singing acapella in college. They're like, wait, what now? Whoa, whoa, okay. Exactly, exactly.

Jeff Ma
This on YouTube, and

Adette C. Contreras
you know, I'm dating myself. I don't think that there is a video. But I'll ask around. So in any case, we started out being super intentional about it and doing all of the things that the school tells you to do, you know. But then when it comes down to the realness, again, the realness bring it back to that when it comes down to business decisions. And specifically, the last two years, I feel like anyone that is in a company owns the company works around the company. It was, you know, crisis management 101, it was a crash course in it right? And so now your values are really put to the test, right? Like, how do you function? How do you keep the business afloat? How do you take care of the people? How do you take care of yourself? How, how does that all tie into each other? And so for us, we the three of us, luckily enough, and this is, by pure luck, we each have different strengths. And so the three of us came together. But as luck would have it, we each fixate in culture in different ways. So for example, I fixate on it sort of, on a philosophical level, and asking people like, Well, what do you want? What's your purpose? You know, why? Why are you here? How can tinsel help you to your next step in life? You know, it can't be a one dimensional it just can't be just career. My business partner lives whose operations and she's so strong at the execution and getting stuff done. You know, she's like, Who do people go to when they're sick? Right? Like, how do they know who to approach for a day off? What if they need a longer leave? Like, it's all very operationally minded, but that, to me, is testament to how she cares about someone, right? Like being able to support someone, and being having clear protocols for that. And then my third business partner, she focuses on more of the the morale and the social aspect of it, because she, she's our people person, she's literally homecoming queen. And she's, you know, not coincidentally, our sales person as well. And she is, she just loves people, she's so strong with people and she is so attuned to, you know, emotional intelligence in a way, that is a really big strength for us. So between the three of us, it's, it's just naturally how we lean. And then we check each other too, right? Because sometimes, you know, we reach, we're all human. Right? So it's really important that to have partners that sort of see you for who you are, and then aren't afraid to tell you when you when you need to tell him. That,

Frank Danna
yeah, that's, that's really cool. And it, it's definitely speaks to the idea of, or maybe, maybe it's the question of does this relationship create high performance? Or does our ability to perform at a high level create relationship and it sounds like, for you, it started as a relationship, and it sort of naturally flowed into high performance. But I'm wondering, you know, how can, how can business leaders begin to build that type of environment? Or how have you seen it done? Maybe the good or the bad, where those relationships are able to even further push them into highperformance?

Adette C. Contreras
I think, for me, the idea of a linear path is one of the greatest fallacies we tell young people. And I am a victim of this right as again, an immigrant daughter, you go to high school, you get into college, you choose your path at 18. And you know exactly what you're gonna do. You get your job in there, and then you get promoted from other promoted ladder, ladder, ladder, whatever. And it's just not true. You know, I don't know anyone that's really had a linear path into what they're doing or finding their love, for that matter. Right. And to me, love in relation to high performance and relationship and in relation to high performance. I think it's all intermingled. And so where I'm going with this is that, I think, in creating Tensil and and founding Tensil, Erica and I, and my business partner, that's more of the sales side, she and I came from advertising agency, with huge advertising agencies where it is it's incredibly linear, right? You pick, you pick a path, if you're a creative, are you a designer? Are you a copywriter, and then you just show up that letter. It's very much like one thing. For us part of why we built Tinsel was because we wanted the fluidity. And we wanted that freedom to exercise who you were beyond just one thing, right? So that multi faceted human is so important, because then you're able to show up with all your different strengths, right? So just you're good at my job. I'm a designer, that mean, I'm also not bad with biases, because that that happens to be what I do at this moment in time for my company. And it's one of those situations where I see that over and over again, especially in creative people and young people that we employ, and allowing them to have that freedom within the company to be to be the Director of their path, I think is super super crucial. And so for us, you know, growing as a company, and because we're a small company, we have the luxury of of crafting ourselves and crafting a position for the person. But I also think, you know, large companies should do more of that anyway, like you just have more resources at your disposal. So why not right, so that's, I don't know if that answers your question. For my end, in terms of high performance, relationships.

Frank Danna
Yeah, I feel like I feel like it's, it's interesting to me, because what you said is so true. We dabbled in agency life. At software for a little while, we kind of became an agency, a digital agency for a little bit. And so yeah, we we were hiring folks that were coming in as copywriters, or designers. And we would branch off and start working on projects that would require different skill sets. And they would be really concerned about you know, how this is going to impact their resume. Because what they were worried about wasn't the getting the project done necessarily, at that moment, what was needed for the project, they were worried about following a linear path. And making sure that whatever they were working on at that moment, laddered up to what they were told to do. And I feel like when you create it, when you create an environment of, of high performance, and those relationships are there, that trust is created. And so people are going to be a little bit more trusting and a little bit more open to experiment and explore when you have that kind of working together. Right. So I definitely feel like as we went through our journey, and the book that we talked about, one of the things that we did notice was that as our company culture started to turn around and go in the positive side, we started to see people open up more and bring their full selves, which meant not just what they were hired to do, but what they were passionate about doing as well. And that actual passion, created higher performing teams, like when people were able to leverage their skill sets that weren't just written down on what their resume said, that changed the game for us, because our clients started to see it and go, Oh, hold on a second. We had no idea you could do that. Do more of that, you know, and that that was really profound for us. And it sounds like that's the type of that's the type of company you've built is a place where you're able to give people a chance to see themselves not as a particular skill, but as a whole person. And I think that's extremely important.

Adette C. Contreras
Exactly. That's exactly it. And I think also, now being at the stage of the career that I'm in feeling the responsibility for our younger team members to be able to help them identify that for themselves. You know, because a lot of the times when you're right, I'm hired to do a thing, this is what it says, I'm going to do. Yeah, I'm gonna do, I'm like, gonna kick ass at that, and I'm gonna kill it, and they're gonna promote me, and it's gonna be awesome. But then to your point, if you had a mentor, or someone guiding you along the way that's giving you permission to experiment that's given you permission, and in calling you out on something that you're really strong at that you might not even know, right? So in our team, there's fear around sales. Everyone's scared of sales, I'm scared of sales

Frank Danna
scared to death of sales, by the way, he really he really is in real life. Jeff is scared to death sales.

Adette C. Contreras
So it's, it's it's one of those like four letter words in our company, but at the end of the day, we are a service business, right? Well, what we do is provide a service for our clients. So guess what? Everyone's in sales. You know, don't know it that you are, huh, yeah. And so, you know, focusing on that, and bringing it out in people and saying like, Hey, listen, you're a great at client work, you're great with people that you know that you're good at sales. And sometimes they're like, No, I'm not. I'm XY and Z. But, you know, uncovering that for them and sort of being a mirror for them to see and discover for themselves, I think is also really important, too.

Jeff Ma
Yeah. I think you're hitting one of the such a important kind of chord that that comes up often are conversations with others, as well as, which is the one of our one of our kind of pillars around all this. Culture is empowerment. And I think it's a word that's thrown around quite a bit. And I also think it's something that people don't quite understand, in my opinion, or less people have experienced it than then you would think, because a lot of people say, oh, yeah, I'm so empowered. But it's oftentimes just they're really good at their job and no one bothers them. And that's not that's not how we kind of see empowerment. Right. Empowerment is where the empowerment really comes out. When you're exactly what you described. It is when you're actually kind of in an environment that allows you and even sometimes pushes you to do things that are not in your comfort zone. And you're set up for success by those around you, like you mentioned a mentor, or empower, you know, empowerment comes from those relationships and behaviors that kind of lead people into those spaces where they're unsure themselves untested. And it sees them through it, success or failure, it sees them through it to the best of their their capabilities, and it grows them through it as well. And not everybody has that a lot of people feel empowered nowadays. But but in a very comfortable place, which I argue is not true. Empowerment is not the potential if you are still good, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that you're not the potentials not been tapped in that type of power.

Adette C. Contreras
I think that's a great point, I there is a sense of, to me, proper empowerment, I think this is what you were saying has a certain layer of discomfort, you know, the ability to be uncomfortable. That to me is true empowerment, right? When you're sort of like fumbling around being like, Oh, is this gonna work? And then if it works, then you're like, oh, man, I did it work, you know, and talk about talking about a rush, right. But that's, that's such a great feeling. And if I can provide that to someone and like, nail that, you know, I don't have to do anything, because that's sort of like that, that pleasure that you feel and what you're capable of accomplishing. Is a met. Right? Yeah.

Jeff Ma
And the reason I'm so hung up on the theme of empowerment from what I'm hearing in your organization, is that one of the biggest impacts of empowerment when you get it right in your culture is the impacts that kind of come out. On the other side, especially in services based organizations, when the people are the ones out there, getting it done. And providing that actual service for others. This is where it really shines. I was curious, I was curious if you have any damage on the spot, but you know, the any stories or anything you can think of sharing of where that type of empowerment or just the culture and behaviors you have for each other in general kind of play out, as in your, for your clients and in the output?

Adette C. Contreras
Well, I think it was kind of living that the last two years, we are in the event space, which you might have heard has been a little bit affected by the global pandemics. Right, right, just a smidge. Just a smidge. Let's see, I think in terms of empowerment, and the work that we've done for our clients, it also ladders back to the team. And I think so last year, we saw growth, right? And I'm knocking on wood, because this year, we're also seeing growth and knocking a lot again, because who has done that, right? Like who is lucky enough to be able to say that. And I know, it's not just luck, because I know the amount of hard work that went into it. And I'm so proud of our mighty mighty team for that. And I think the example I'm going to bring to the table right now is is a testament of that. So, last last year, I'm like, wait, what year is it? Yes, in the year 20, we had an election, right? I'm like, whoa, whoa, what are we living in? The year 2020, we had an election and our team was tasked with. We worked with a company called impactful and also people to the polls, to create a nationwide event to help voters essentially, there are polling sites around the country that are notorious for online. So in order to increase voter turnout, we're like, what if we bring water and pizza to these polling places, so that when people are waiting in line for three, four or five hours, you know, they they can wait in order to vote versus you know what, I'm going to go get lunch because this line is insane. Right? So we did that last year at that was our mighty team throughout the entire nation. And we were able to make a difference, you know, and so I think breaking again, the passion that we have. So internally, empowering our team for making mistakes or really leaning into their strengths or whatever we think everyone takes Gallup Strengths Finder. Have you have you all gotten the

Jeff Ma
Part of it? Yes, yeah.

Adette C. Contreras
Well, so the the thinking behind it is that people are innately strong in certain aspects. And if you have a team of people that are all working in their strengths, then you have a chance of having a team of all stars versus if you work on the things that you're really bad at. You know, that you can probably hope for mediocrity, right So instead, pivot into focusing on the things that folks are innately good at. And then just like, just keep feeding that right. And so with this particular job, I think we really leaned into that, because 2020 November, you know, we were all just kind of like, What even is happening? What is What does work look like for industry? What does it mean to have an in person gathering? What does it mean for safety? What does it mean for the democracy, right. And so it was one of those moments where we're just so proud of how that project was so proud of the work that we did, which was an immense amount of work. And looking back on it, you know, it's one of those things that it was a haze for us. But at the other side of it, we're like, wow, we really, we pulled it off, not only did we pull it off, it was hugely successful. And that client is so happy that they're coming back over and over again, you know, so in terms of what you were talking about in the book of love as a business strategy and putting it first and then seeing the returns on the other side, I think that's a great example of it. Because with what we've done with sinful over two thirds of our clients are repeat, and even more referral. Right. So that type of organic growth, you can't fake it. Because for what we do is you're really in the trenches with people. And if, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't like what you're working with, it's not going to be a good event. And I can say that for many things beyond just experiential.

Frank Danna
You know, I think it's it's funny you say that, because in hosting Seneca leaders events all around the world and having to basically spend 24 hours a day with people to pull these things off. If you don't like the folks, you go have yourself a bad time. So there, yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing to say I'm looking forward to spending time with people that know you care. Right, especially in the event space where you are, I can imagine when you're having a pulling off a big event, the the two weeks, maybe two months, I'm not sure what the what the countdown time as leading up to that event is 100% focused and dedicated, work hours go out the window, everything is just focused on delivering, right?

Adette C. Contreras
And that's, yeah. Oh, go ahead.

Frank Danna
No, I was just gonna say there's something to be said about care. There's something to be said about, about, you know, empowering people and trusting them to get the work done when you're basically just 100% of the time spending time with them.

Adette C. Contreras
Right. And that's also why for me, the multifaceted thing of being a human is hyper critical. It's one of those because as you said, when work hours go out the window, when stress hits the fan, you're going to be who you are, regardless of whatever facade you think you're putting on, right? It's gone. Now. It's gone. You're not sleeping. It's one of those things where, as you said, like, Fast and Furious. That's, it's sort of the timeline for an event, you know, you can do all the planning, but at the end of the day, it always hits a climax where, hey, it's showtime curtains up, you know, there, there's a reason why it's called production.

Frank Danna
Hmm, that's good. I'm wondering, what advice would you give to other business leaders that are far enough along in their careers, that they understand that it's okay to break the mold of what you thought you were supposed to do? And the structure and status quo of entering a workforce and only doing the certain thing at a young age, like the younger generation? What would you say as advice to, you know, folks that are business leaders that that know that bringing a wider variety of skill sets to work is more valuable than being focused on one particular thing? How would How would you communicate that to them and, and help them understand different ways of empowering their younger team members and the younger generation to see that it's okay to do in their own workplace?

Adette C. Contreras
I think it's always important to lead by example, because then you make the mistakes yourself. And then you can learn and calibrate what you're, you know, how to approach your team, right? So to me, I'm always a big proponent of like, if the person hasn't done it themselves, and why should I take their advice? And that's great. You know, I feel that for anything. So in terms of what I would say to folks that are exploring this, I think one figure it out for yourself first, right? Like if you are, oh, here's a good example. I, a lot of people come up to me, and they're like, Hey, listen, I'm not creative. I'm like, Why? Why do you say that? You know, what, what leads you to believe that about yourself? So they're like, Oh, well, you know, I'm not I'm not a designer. I'm not an artsy person. I've never taken an art class, I don't have an art degree, etc, etc. And I'm like, well, creativity isn't limited to that, you know? I got to me the way you circumnavigated a problem and solve it in a way that I didn't think about or anybody else thought about, you brought creativity to that problem. So really the, the issue here is not that you're not creative is that you don't think you're creative, right? So there's, first you have to believe that in yourself. And then once you once you see that, and you're like, oh, maybe I am creative. And in my previous example, oh, maybe I am good at sales, you know, maybe I will ask my friend that works at x company, if they would be interested in working at Tinsel. Right. And that is a very sales person move. But if you're, you know, if you don't think of yourself in that light, you're not going to do it, right. And if you don't think of yourself in that light, then Tinsel as a company is not going to benefit from that added revenue. And so I think my advice is, then first to try it out for yourself and see, and see how it feels and feel that discomfort yourself, as Jeff was saying, in terms of empowerment, feel that discomfort yourself, because then then you'll know what people are thinking or like that voice that you hear inside your head that doubts you, that you can push through that. And then you can sort of act to like a guide, or, you know, make it feel like you're psychic, when you're trying to get your team to do the same. Because then you're talking to people, and then they're like, Oh, my God, that's exactly what went through my head. It's like, yeah, no, that's what went through my head. But I think that would be my my first piece of advice. So like, first start with yourself, and then and then see what you can do in terms of guiding other folks.

Jeff Ma
I love that. Adette final question for you today. Just to zoom back out. What does love as a business strategy? Not not the book or the podcast? I mean, like, what does love in a business context mean to you? Personally?

Adette C. Contreras
I think it's twofold. For me, the first one is sort of what we've been talking about, for the bulk of this conversation of that interpersonal love. And knowing the people that you surround yourself with, as more than just transactional work tasks. You know, like, knowing how they are at home, knowing what matters to them knowing, knowing what they want in life, like, why why are they working with you? Why are we all doing this crazy event together, at the end of the day, you know, it makes what makes them tick. So I think that, to me, is the first sense of love and not to get into like, the whole Greek words of love. But the second to me, that is really crucial, for me, personally, is the sense of love and like a deeper understanding of your own passion and your own purpose. Because especially in entrepreneurship and in business building, sticking to your core beliefs as a human and building around that and using that as your TrueNorth, as they say, makes, makes this nonlinear path much more manageable. You know, it's never going to be easy, but at least if you if you're true to yourself, and that's the other thing, you have to be honest with yourself, you can't be like, oh, I want to help the world and at the end of the day, you want to want to help the world right? But Be true to yourself too. And be brutally honest with yourself that type of love, I think is also crucial. So to me it's it's both and having a leader at the helm of a company. espouse those two kinds, I think you've got the beginnings of something good that you know can then hopefully scale

Jeff Ma
love that love that second piece of your definition there. Think it's so important often missed so I think finding that that love almost self love a little bit within your your business like values and in your business kind of plan is is huge. I love that. Adette thank you so much for taking the time today and sharing your story, your perspective your passions, it was really awesome to see.

Adette C. Contreras
So much fun.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, the connective tissue as well. I felt like it felt like we're different worlds but so much of what you said felt like oh, yeah, good point. We, we see the same exact thing here. But really appreciate the time you spent today with us. Thank you to the listeners as well. And as always, we're all in sales. So as I'm in sales right now, please check out our book. Love is a business strategy. best selling book on Wall Street Journal lists and yes, that's holding one Frank's holding one mic back there.

Frank Danna
Here it is.

Jeff Ma
please keep listening to the podcast. We love having you here. There's something you like you don't like let us know in A review or you know, just come talk to us. We love this conversation. So, with that, thank you Frank for joining as well, and we hope everyone has a wonderful day. See you next

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