Jesse Hernandez  
You're more likely to die by suicide than any other risk on a job site. In the construction industry. Substance abuse is through the roof in the construction industry. mental wellness is not ideal in the construction industry. My observation is all of that those things are a symptom of the isolated state in which we function within the industry, meaning we just won't talk to people about anything.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, the podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from, we believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories from real people about real businesses real life. And my guest today is Jesse Hernandez. Jesse's career ranges from grading ditches to counseling executives in this path, taught him that we are more alike than we are different. He leverages that experience by supporting leaders in building deep connection with their teams, through their improvement initiatives. His message is one of contribution, ownership and vulnerability. This message is visible in his book, becoming the promise you are intended to be. And also in the live experience on the live stream known as No BS with Jen and Jess. And with that, I would love to welcome Jesse to the show. How are you doing Jesse?

Jesse Hernandez  
Oh, Jeff, I'm awesome. And just listening to like, read that intro like, this guy? Sounds fancy. I want to meet him.

Jeff Ma  
And in what ways are you not fancy I get take that you don't feel fancy? So tell me more about that?

Jesse Hernandez  
That's actually a fabulous question. You know, part of my will say some some of the thinking in my head, is I don't see myself as a very serious person. And, and when I say serious, I'm talking about like, follow the rules cross all the t's dot the eyes, perfect grammar, perfect punctuation, like that is never going to be me. And in my head, there are very serious professional people that are very clinical and exact in the way that they function and think. And I'm like all the way on the other end are super relaxed and casual, and just like to have fun. And and I think in some cases, maybe it's just all in my head. That that's silly. And that's not fancy. That makes sense. Sure.

Jeff Ma  
I mean, absolutely. I get what you're saying. But talking about your intro, from grading ditches, to counseling executives. I mean, there's there's I'm sure there's fun, littered throughout that journey. But I have to have to know, how did that journey and this is, is is this kind of combining a question I always open with I always open with what is your passion? Right. But I have to maybe it's a stretch, but I have to imagine your passion sit somewhere on that path. So can you can you talk a little bit about what your passion is? And how you got from grading ditches to counseling executives?

Jesse Hernandez  
Oh, yeah, you know, that path is kind of where I discovered and maybe refined my passion or so I began my career, my working career back in the 1900s 1995. I got into construction as an apprentice plumber, my dad's a plumber. And so it's supposed to be a summer job. And I decided, man, this is amazing. I love this, like being on the job site and all of that excitement and noise and physicality. Like everything was phenomenal. And I'm also a naturally discontent person, I always want to I need to be learning more. And if things aren't, things are done, it feels like why are we doing it that way, there's got to be a better way. Let's make it better. And so that kind of led me down the path of continuously learning and growing my career within the industry. Or, like, more precisely what that first company I was with, or the first leg of my career. I went from being an installer. Then I got promoted to be a foreman. And then I got promoted to be a superintendent and then I got promoted to another thing and then another thing and in those promotions that were these big, gigantic leaps, in terms of the way I function that had to be learned. And so this is kind of where the passion thing starts. It's posing itself, you know, when I was installing my passion was to beat everybody, period, I just wanted to out, install my peers. That's all I wanted to do. And as I got better or progressed, I got promoted, I still wonder sometimes if it was a promotion or a punishment, but we'll figure that out eventually, right? When I got into leadership, being the foreman, you know, having 610 people that I was responsible for, and in charge of, I had to change the way I operated. And it took me a long time. Like, what I first did was, I did it by force. And that was very stressful and painful to me as a human being and to them. And people would quit. And one day, my boss pulled me to the side. And he said, just, like, you're pretty good at making money, pretty good at making schedule. But our clients kind of don't like working with you. And people quit on you all the time on like, Yeah, I know, you need to hire better people and get better clients. And he's like, no, no, no. He said, Okay, I'll just just straight up said, look, you've progressed, and you're at this level in the organization, and you have a ton of potential. But if you don't change the way you function, you're going to stay here forever. Says, you're excellent at executing task and making money. And all of those things. I was like, Well, yeah, of course, he's like, Well, if you want to grow your influence within the organization, you're gonna have to learn to develop people too. So success here means financial performance, and developing people. And when you can figure that out the like, it's limitless. After that, I said, son of a gun, this changed the game on me. But luckily, I was with an organization that provided those types of resources, like certain there was a culture of servant leadership, tons of research, resources for me to learn and grow those capabilities. And then there's the passion, I discovered that I have an aptitude for teaching. And more importantly, I wanted to teach the lessons I learned. That made me being a foreman easier. That made me being a superintendent easier. So I ended up putting together some training transitional training that took Installer to Foreman foreman, the superintendent, because it made the company money. But it also like minimized the the swimming pool of failure and misery that a person lives in when they're transitioning into a new role. And now not given the tools and resources to adapt, like to ease the adoption or the transition. And then like, they let me do that full time, like, you're going to be the trainer. So Whoa, okay. That put me in front of more people that created some opportunities where I got another job working for one of the biggest builders in the country. And I didn't know what I was doing all my peers, and my direct reports, they all have college degrees, I didn't. So it was this tremendous leap and growth. And my responsibility was to help them, help them with change management, deploy and change. I had no credentials, right? I'm just this plumber from the south side of San Antonio working for these big giant, fancy people. And I had to, like, just go with what I got, which was the care I have to make people's lives better. And so that's the passion, right is what can I discovered along the way, and then I had to like, prove it and prove it to myself, that even though my experiences were painful, shameful, embarrassing, maybe small in scale, the lessons within them are extremely valuable for other people. And so being able to be vulnerable about my failures, helps people learn, and helps minimize the amount of pain that they're going to that they would go through if they just had to learn on their own. And so that that, again, started off as a plumber, then I got into like management within the office, then I had a regional role. From there, I went on to a national role. And it was interesting, because every time I made those leaps, they were big, gigantic leaps. And I always thought the bigger the, the scale, or the status of the job, or the company that I was with that they just had different problems like they were the elite. And turns out, we all kind of have the same problems. And it's because we're all human. And so because I think of my ability, or maybe it's an unfair advantage, that I've spent so much time in the field, installing things, spent so much time in the office learning those languages, working with the GC learning that language Working with an owner, like changing stuff. The problem is the communication and the deciphering of the secret codes everybody speaks with. And I've had the fortune of being able to spend time in those spaces enough to learn and be kind of the communicator all the way through the value stream, if you will. So that I think that's where it is.

Jeff Ma  
So today, are you are you counseling? Exactly? Are you still like specializing in that industry in that space? Or are you kind of this is message kind of holistically across all all management organizations, all industries

Jesse Hernandez  
Yo phenomenal questions. So today, I'm a consultant. So I run my own business, I launched my business about 20 months ago. And what I do is I get to do the same type of things I was doing before in terms of change management, team building, you know, my whole focus, there's a bunch of systems and processes that I teach. But that's not the fun part, right. And there's a lot of people that do what I do in the construction space, specifically, which is lean construction, continuous improvement, if you've heard of it, you know what I'm talking like, it's it that kind of goes through all industries. But I play in the construction space. But my focus is on the human side of it, all right, because the processes, the steps, the techniques, all of those things, they like they all technically are good, and they'll work well makes it hard as the people. And so when I'm teaching and driving or guiding companies or teams through this thing, I make a super heavy emphasis on the social value the social elements within the change experience. Because in my head, that's the most important part, if all I focus on is the process and the steps and don't help people, I give them a heads up and like, Hey, that's a big idea. But if you haven't got feedback from everybody else that's attached to that idea. When you send that email, a nobody going to do that thing. So here's what you should do, to cultivate to socialize the idea and start cultivating trust and interest in your perspective, and also become the learner for the organization so that you can get all of that insight and bake that into whatever solution you think you want to roll out. Such that when you finally deploy, it's not people aren't blindsided, and they're actually advocating for it. But because I focus focus on the human side, the people side of the thing, it's more sustainable, it's more likely to stay alive, right? If you kind of overcome the resistance before the resistance ever happens. Can I do that outside of construction? Yes. Construction is just the the language that I'm strongest at if that?

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, I mean, in doing love as a business strategy, and talking to hundreds of people in all types of walks of life, one of the biggest learnings I had one of the reasons I'm excited, I'm like, let's talk construction or technical talk to all the construction is because, you know, when we first started this journey, when I first started this journey, there was this constant kind of conversation around. Oh, well, you know, that industry is completely different, or our industry. Yes, so, so unique, and there's truth to it, right? There's obviously truth to it, there's a lot to understand about the ins and outs, and every industry has its own kind of nuances. But you know, it just never fails time and time again, as long as humans are working with other humans. You just keep seeing the biggest problems, these companies, organizations, these leaders face is still like the same, like kind of falling under the same umbrella. And so, you know, I've yet to talk to someone from construction on this show. But even in life, you know, we talked to you know, healthcare was a big one, they're like, No, you don't understand healthcare is so unique. And they're right, it is very unique, that the structured, everything is so unique, like, we're over here trying to like, you know, minimize, you know, incidences and all that have this zero, you know, just just just culture and all these things. And I'm like, Well, you know, all these other industries have this a different name for kind of the same thing around, you know, your high reliability. There's zero, there's zero accidents is there you know, all these things, and, and when you really put the pieces together, it's just like, wow, we really are kind of we are all playing the same game of figuring out how to treat each other. Yeah, how to show up and make each other better. And I learned I was just throwing that in there because as you're speaking I'm like, Yeah, I'm feeling the same exact experience when it comes to Do just how, you know, specializing in one industry obviously makes you uniquely positioned really, really important. That space, but your message is already, you know, everything you're saying is already resonating for me like, universally. Yeah.

Jesse Hernandez  
You know. And so again, like because I'm not fancy,

Jeff Ma  
I'm lazy I start, but I'm trying to say you are fancy. That's my point, your, your, your way fancier than yours.

Jesse Hernandez  
I'm trying to like I always like, what's the smallest most common thing? And, you know, we like to use the word communication. The problem with the word communication is that is a relative term, right? We all have a different understanding of what communication means. And I think largely, we believe communication means me delivering my message. And so I don't focus on that part, I focus on the other part of communication, which is listening, right, like, and we are, I'm a horrible listener, I've gotten better. And it's taken tremendous effort and practice, to learn how to listen now. Listening isn't just listening, or hearing mouth noise and keeping my mouth closed. Right? Listening? Is it for me, when I'm doing it, like, to the utmost? Is me connecting with the human being that's in front of me. And that requires me to be hear their words, interpret their body language, their tone, their pace, to understand, what are they feeling right now? What are they thinking? What's the story in their head, so that I can connect with them? And, you know, asking questions about what they feel or think about a situation is very different than the, like generic active listening of Oh, yeah. Oh, let me summarize what you said. Right? It's really more understand like, Okay, Jeff, like, how did that make you feel like, we're where does that take you in terms of what the outcome might be. And when I have those types of conversations, I really get to understand how to serve that person, how to better serve the person in front of me, because what they what starts coming out is like fears and insecurities. And we kind of all have those. And what I've done in the past, and I think I've seen it in other people, is my behavior is like designed to mask my fear and insecurity. But that mask severs the connection with the people that I'm trying to connect to. And so it's this kind of, it's messy. And that is not unique. We all know that feeling, right? I think we've all probably talked to a loved one. And we were stressed, we're in a rush, and they needed some really focused attention. And we gave them a sharp yes, no, what do you want what's wrong? And then said, son of a gun, I totally screwed that up. Right. So and that happens to us all the time. And I think like, if I think about the problems that businesses are have experiencing, that leaders are experiencing with their direct reports, or inter departmentally, I can almost always point to that kind of interaction, the short, abrupt, distracted presence that we bring to the conversation that leads into poor business outcomes. What do you think? Is that to woo woo?

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely. Not super fancy, is really a really, really fancy explanation. I'm kidding. No, I think I think you're just, it's resonating with me, because this is, you know, if you go and watch this show, over and over, across all the episodes, what you're saying gets repeated in completely different words and ways over and over again. And it always strikes me that we all feel like we're in this unique situation, especially when you weren't like within a company, and you're trying to solve problems. And you have names to put against faces and actions, and you're like, well, so and so and this and that. And then when you zoom out and you talk to enough people, you realize like every company has that guy, or everyone has this situation to some extent, and we're all kind of dancing around the same core kind of once and and hopes and desires and we can't always put a finger on it. We can't always be like oh, this is the fix. This is what we want. And yet here we are. spending so much time trying to like be careful how we communicate with each other how we frame things for fear of retribution for fear of looking and bad. And you know, and I know you're big on vulnerability. And so one of the things that I was, you know, wanting to kind of move my quiet line of questioning through was this idea that, and I am going to speak about your industry and talk about construction and things like this, because I love bringing to this show those. While I'm saying it's universal, I love bringing the unique specific perspectives of those different categories, because it helps others see that it is universal when we see them in all the other contexts, right, 100%. And so I really want to talk about vulnerability in your industry specifically, because to me, and this is just coming from the outside, in like a layman perspective. But it seems that that there's more than many other industries. It's it's a bit at odds, especially when you talk when you talk about construction at its core, when you talk about the type of Persona profile of people who are working in this industry, not to generalize. Yeah, but But talk to me a little bit about vulnerability and the unique challenges, or at least the potentially unique challenges that are in construction with that. Yeah,

Jesse Hernandez  

yeah, no, you're that several people are like, What are you talking about? In construction? Like, yes, I had a friend of mine who texted we, we had like a group chat. A bunch of people want to call like, it wasn't clubhouse, it was some other thing. But we were all talking. And there was a couple of gentlemen who, you know, they had the gray hairs, right. They've been in the industry for decades. And one of them was sharing a very intimate thing. And he his voice was cracking. It was awesome. It was a beautiful experience. Anyways, friend, she texts me later. She's like, dude, what do you what are you giving these people? What do you mean? It's like, these are construction. You got construction man crying on the phone? Like, did it ain't me like, I can't take credit for it. But it all of that was based on I think, like one in construction. It's it's a heavily male populated industry, like, first of all, so there's that. Then the work, like the installation, part of the work is is super, super physical. And the the personalities are rough, too. And that's probably saying it nicely. Yeah. And so there's, there's a toughness, that you almost have to have to not go home crying at the end of the day, every single day. Right. Now, there's also these other maladjusted behaviors. And we don't have time to think with a rather we don't have time to talk, I wouldn't leave your problems at in the truck, and just come in and get to work. And so like communicating about what we think and feel is not it's not a thing, right, like it's an abnormality, actually. So that's how I came up through the industry, right? You just suck it up, if you don't like it, Walmart's hiring like that. That was the way I function. So we have treated people. Now, what's also happening in construction is we have, you're more likely to die by suicide than any other risk on a job site. In the construction industry. Substance abuse is through the roof in the construction industry. mental wellness is not ideal in the construction industry. My observation is all of that those things are a symptom of the isolated state in which we function within the industry, meaning we just won't talk to people about anything like we do our job, you're supposed to be done like you're measured, my value is indicated by by the amount of things I can pull it in, period. So if I have a feeling stuffed, unless I'm hungry, that's only like you get credit for being hungry and sleepy as a feeling any feeling beyond hungry and sleepy is that we can't talk about it. Anyhow, I had these love letters that an ex wrote me. And what she did was she contextualized the five S system which is sort set, shine, standardize and sustain. And this like kind of came up in the manufacturing industry has bled into the construction. I know that it's heavily used in practice in healthcare as well. So my ex, she contextualize the system to our personal relationship. Because it was on the rocks, right like that. We were having problems and I said, Oh my god, this is genius. I tried to do some of the things but you know, I have issues so the relationship didn't last but I knew that that concept what she did was valuable. And so I kept the letters you know I'd share them with People are like, Man, this is awesome. This is great stuff for relationships. But I still hadn't figured out how to like get them out into the world because I knew they would be valuable. So I ended up reaching out to a friend, Jennifer Lacey. Because of her demeanor like she has, she's a very people centered person. So that was another thing, right? In the work that I've done, I got to travel the country. And work with hundreds and hundreds of construction leaders, Project executives, business unit managers, directors, all Foreman superintendent, all across the board. And there's a small handful of people that produce phenomenal results for the business and for their projects. The one thing they all have in common is a people centered focus. And so I'm like, okay, that's that's a thing. You know, that listening piece. That's a thing. And Jennifer Lacey, we're in the same industry. She's here in Texas, also, I noticed that she was very people focused, and she has a very commanding presence. So I reached out to her and say, Hey, girl, I got an idea. She says, What do you really know me, you know? And it's I got these love letters. What if we do some five streams, sorry, some live streams, talking about how we could apply these principles in the workplace. If you'd like you could talk about the professional stuff. I'll talk about the personal stuff, because I don't mind spilling my guts about the dumb things I've done. Here. Let's do it. So we start the live streams. What ends up happening, like after the first one first, the amazing thing that happened, people showed up. Because, you know, like, what's the goal, the goal was to get to help one person. That's the goal. We don't want to like, it's not a million followers. It was just, if we just these ideas can help one person that's a win, win. People showed up, representing like, the largest builders in the construction industry. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. After the first live stream, she got phone calls and text messages. I got phone calls and text messages like Jess, that was awesome. Like, don't need to do that again. And in the chat of the live stream. As Jennifer and I were sharing our experiences, our mistakes, our errors. They did too. Like they were sharing very intimate, like fears and concerns and failures, the type of things you just normally don't share. What was super, super interesting, Jeff, is they were doing it in the riskiest venue possible. Right, like on the internet. And so I talked to one I was like, I said, Ben, have you talked to anybody about this? Like before? Like, no, there's no way I can't. I was like, but you put it on the internet. Like, well, yeah, but it's like y'all are doing it. So it felt safe. So we Jennifer got we got together Dennis Adyen. What do you think? Like, like, oh, yeah, I got the same feedback. Oh, man. Okay, we got to do it again. So we did again, round two, we knew we had five. This time we incorporated the after party, which used to be on clubhouse. Now we do it on the LinkedIn audio thing. So we have the live stream, then we have the after party. And everybody can call in and we can talk to people. And on that call another friend Thomas LeMay said he's like Jess, what y'all are talking about? Is what our industry needs. Like, our people are suffering because our relationships, we don't have them. We don't know how to do them. And so all of a sudden, I'm like, dammit, now we have a responsibility. So we did it again. At the end of the five that was the plan, we're gonna do five and we're gonna be done. Buddy. Bromley another awesome friend was like, Man, I wish there was 10 S's. So we can keep having live streams and said, Oh, reached out to some other people. And they're like, yeah, what y'all are gonna stop? I was like, Well, yeah, you can. Okay. And so, Jennifer. And I said, Okay, this was right before. It's kind of Christmas time, two years ago. Now. I said, what is happening? So we've evaluated that. And this is what we came up with is the fact that she and I are coming up on the screen, spilling our guts, right, sharing the mistakes, that's vulnerability, right? And so maybe clarify around that word. Some of us treat vulnerability, like this big giant thing that requires me to cry every time I speak. It's simply saying, I have a problem.

Jesse Hernandez  

That is a or saying, I don't know. That is an action of vulnerability being vulnerable. And so what she and I were doing is we were sharing our mistakes we're sharing what we didn't know we were sharing what we thought we knew. We were demonstrating respect for each other because we both know a lot about each other but we never like spilled the beans on all the like all the scary stuff like we kept it reasonably safe. We honored each other. And we supported each other multiple times where she's in tears, she's choking up, and I'm in tears, and I'm choking up, and we gave each other the space. So, like my summary was, what we're doing is we're demonstrating vulnerability, we're demonstrating trust, we're demonstrating this psychological safety that everybody's talking about. And what that's doing is it's creating the conditions for people to let their guard down a little bit and share a little bit more about themselves, which was powerful. The fact that they're willing to do it on the damn internet is an indicator that we still have a problem, because they're not sharing that at home. They're not sharing that at work, they're not sharing that with their friends. And so, but they this is a place of reprieve where they can come and do that and start getting some reps in and getting some practice to continue doing that out on the job sites or in their offices, anyhow, so that I threw it out there, right? It's been two years. Those little five, the live streams turned into no BS with Jen and Jess. So we have a live stream every other Saturday, imperfect conversations about the people side of business. That's what it is. And we also turn those live streams into a book, the first five, because people a friend of mine reached out and she was like, Hey, I wish there was a place I could go to get like the Cliff Notes, because there was a lot of really good nuggets that Josh shared, and that the people shared in the chat. And I was like, Well, yeah, you know, they're there on YouTube. And she's like, Yeah, but I don't want to have to go through nine hours of watching videos to get the nuggets. I said, huh, I was working on a book. So I thought I could turn this into a book. So I reached out to my coach said, Hey, Coach, is what I want to do. I got transcribed content, can we turn it into a book? She said, Yeah, actually, it'll be super fast. And, Jeff, I don't know, I know you're an accomplished author. But I'll share this for anybody that says, Oh, I could do that. It's easy. I'll do it. Like reading the transcription of a conversation between two people is not the same as listening to it. Like it didn't make any damn sense. It was like squirrels were chirping at each other, though. 

Jeff Ma  
Oh, I know.

Jesse Hernandez  
So you know. 

Jeff Ma  
You don't have to read these transcripts every week.

Jesse Hernandez  

Like what what the word was that. So anyways, it took a little more ork than we expected. But that ended up becoming the lean in love. Five s in relationships, that's the name of the book. And it really the purpose of the book, again, is to help one person. But there's really practical tips, practices, advice, or thinking mental models of how to, like take like, be the human being that we are inside and outside the gate, the gate of the job site, right? Because we never stopped being human beings. We pretend that we do. Like we I've convinced myself that I can leave my work at work and my home problems at home. But the truth is, I can't like it is always with me. And so the idea is what if I just said be all of me all the time. I will conserve energy from that train to be fancy Jesse and then regular Jesse, I could just be regular Jesse all the time. And with that saved energy, I can better serve people. And so that's that's kind of how that whole thing came about. And in construction, which is interesting. We've learned that businesses but piles of the book and they had like a book study with the whole you know, inner inside their departments are on the job sites to start figuring out how can we be more what's the other fancy word authentic with each other, and foster like meaningful relationships, not just the clapping clap out relationship, but appreciating appreciating each other for being the human beings that we are. And that's caught some wind and so we get invited to speak at different conferences and different industry stuff. And more and more people are like opening up to it. And being willing to explore this idea of vulnerability. Now, I also know don't use the word vulnerable. Don't use the word emotional. Because they're scary words. We have an online committee community named emotional bungee jumpers. And it's it It's all designed to help us like be connect better with the people that we love and care about. And I've talked to a bunch of people that are like, what are you gonna do like, well, this is what we work on it. Like, man, that's awesome. Like, yeah, why haven't you signed up? segment I don't like that word emotional, like that scares me. Okay, we might need to change the name. But there's definitely people that I think we all inherently know, right? Like, when you get close to somebody, or close to a group of people that demonstrate deep meaningful connection, you all of a sudden want it. And like, now you know what it looks like, and you can't you can't unthink it right? You can't forget it. And then it's like, okay, how do I do that? And how can I do that one friend said that the this five s and relationships idea was operationalizing making or fostering relationships, and I said, whoo, that sounds really fancy. But for real, like, if you just follow some of the steps, your your relationships could get better. I mean, I had to do them. And it worked, you know?

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely. And I think, you know, I haven't I haven't read the book. And, and I now intend to, but it, it sounds like the way you're describing it is like something that that, again, strikes me as incredibly universal. Yeah, and I, and I just, I can't stress enough how refreshing it is to hear your story. And kind of connecting the dots through your unique kind of journey through construction, all these specific things. But yeah, like you're in an industry where this is perhaps a more foreign concept, it perks the ears of many people. But, man, when you when you step right outside to banking, to, you know, management in any, really, any any arena. This is just, this is just an just the echoing of the same exact need for this, this vulnerability. So I find this just just great to hear great to kind of affirm, continue to affirm my beliefs around these things. And to hear it working so well through you and with you is is just awesome. And I and I want to thank you, I want to thank you for sharing your journey and your story. I'm really looking forward to checking out the book and hopefully one of the live stream experiences sometime at some point.

Jesse Hernandez  
We got one coming out.

Jeff Ma  
Let's do it. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Jesse, I know we ran out of time, but I do appreciate you. What's next for you? What's what's what's on the horizon?

Jesse Hernandez  
Yeah, so my the next big nugget I'm trying to crack. Like I said, I started my business about 20 months ago. And I been extremely fortunate to work with amazing forward thinking leaders. And like, I'm not having to do any table dancing yet to pay the bills. So that's a good thing for everybody else, right? Now, what I did a little reflection, and I'm like, you know, I'm doing I'm doing these delivering the services. But there's these couple of things that I do that I love. And why do I love them? It's like, Ah, well, because of the impact, like the transformation that people experience from them or through them, I should say. And that's like the, that's like 20% of my revenue for last year. 80% comes from the face to face consulting, coaching, training type stuff that I do. And I said, You know what, it'd be a fun thing. What if rather, what's it going to take to flip my business to where 80% of the time I have is spent on providing these transformational experiences. And when I say transformational, I should be super clear in that. It's like instant, like, I can witness it on the call or in the engagement, the light bulbs, and sometimes they're more like airbags going off like, Oh, I'd never looked at like some now I could see things differently, and they're gonna have a better experience. And so that's what I'm focused on. Right. So like sweat equity improvement is one of those things that I do that super field, hands on trade, installation oriented, and then emotional bungee jumpers, which is the community learning and growing thing. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. It's not an easy one, because both of those have really crazy names. And nobody knows what the hell they are. So I got to help people understand what they are and figure out how to articulate the value in business terms, right? Because it would be awesome for like businesses are going to get tremendous value out of it. And that's the goal. So what that means is I'm going to have to build a whole bunch of new skills. I'm going to have to meet a whole bunch of new people. And that's the point is what's what's a crazy challenge I can set myself up for If that will cause me to grow more. And that's what it is so well, we'll see. We'll see. Yep.

Jeff Ma  
This is just getting fancier and fancier as you. Yes. Yes. All right, fill in the blank Jessie. Last thing, the most important thing for me to show up as my whole authentic self at work is blank.

Jesse Hernandez  
Sharing the dirty details. That is the most important thing. I don't need to polish them. I don't need to print them up. I just need to share the dirty details of what it is to live in Jesse land. And that is authenticity without even thinking.

Jeff Ma  
Awesome. Thank you to Jesse. Thank you to the listeners. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you did, please leave a note subscribe rate all those great things and don't forget to check out the book love as a business strategy. So with that, we'll be having another great conversation very soon here. So we'll see you all next time here at the love as a business strategy podcast. Peace