Jacob Baadsgaard  
Hey, I learned all the lessons. I did all the hard things, and now life's supposed to be easy, right? Like the that's the trick that I still fall for sometimes, because, just because I had an epiphany once, there's this part of me that doesn't want to have to have an epiphany again, because it's a little painful to work through those things, right?

Jeff Ma  
Hello and welcome to Love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I am your host, Jeff MA and as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories about how real people and real businesses operate in real life. And my guest today is Jacob Baadsgaard. And Jake is the founder and CEO of Disruptive advertising. He's an amateur. Sorry, not amateur an entrepreneur. He's an entrepreneur at heart. And he's a relation first, correct? Jeff? I mean, yeah, sure. Jake is a relation for relationship first, kind of guy that loves learning from other people's life experiences. He actively works to create an environment where people feel seen, heard and challenged to take that next big step in their life journey. And when he's not juggling his many roles at disruptive you might find him putting in miles on his bike or running and spending time with his wife, Teresa and their four children. So with that, I'd love to welcome Jake to the show. Jake, how are you doing? How's that amateur life going for you?

Jacob Baadsgaard  
Jeff, I think that's the way to live, constant amateur and beta mode, right? That means we're learning and growing in ways that are new and foreign to us. So I actually love that. I'm like, I might, I might need to make that my title moving forward.

Jeff Ma  
Well, Jake, I know today we're going to be talking about a lot like I think I wanted to invite you today, not, of course, talk about your business. Talk about love as a business strategy on the whole for you and what that means to you and your life. But also just talking about life in general is something that I don't think that I spent enough time on this show on so connecting the dots here with you is going to be really, really, really important for our listeners, because we talked about, we talked about business, 99% of time today, I want to kind of depart a little bit and connect the dots. Not, not ignore the business side of things, but also see how that connects through you. So appreciate you taking the time today.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah,

Jeff Ma  
can you kick us off with a bit of a background? I always love to start with passion centric questions. So what is your passion, Jake, and what brought you to that passion?

Jacob Baadsgaard  
You know, I think there's a couple of things that come to mind when you ask that question. The The first one is, I love being an explorer. I love trying new things, as much as painful as it is to like fail at it or to not do well, I feel like my calling in life is to go climb the mountain and come back and tell people what I found, and if it's worth looking at, you know, and so that's what, that's where I like that title of I really do feel like I like living on that, on the edge of my capabilities. And a lot of the times I figure out what doesn't work and go through cycles of self doubt and self judgment and burnout and those types of things. But Jeff, that's where I, like, find where my path forward is. So, like, for example, I got so into running that I just kept running until, like, I got a stress fracture in my leg, and I'm like, Oh, there's the limit. Like, I figured out where the limit is. Or with business, right? Like, it's, how do I grow this business and and be successful and do all of these things? And like, grew it to the point where it was now the source of not liking my life. And so I feel like that's kind of where it broke, and I used to judge myself for being that way, in terms of kind of testing the limits and seeing kind of until something breaks. But I've kind of learned that that's actually the way I love living my life is. I kind of don't like being in balance. I like exploring, and I don't know until I know, and my wife calls it my immersive personality. And usually by the time something breaks, then I can step back and say, Okay, now I know where the boundaries are and how that works for me moving forward.

Jeff Ma  
Wow, is this something that you've found relatable to others, or do you feel like it's pretty unique out in the world? Do you feel like other people? Have you met others who also share this boundary pushing passion of yours?

Jacob Baadsgaard  
I. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. There's a lot of us out there. You know, I think of Disney characters that the first person that come to mind that we can all relate with where we've got to go and and blaze our own path forward, and not the one that we thought we were supposed to or told we were supposed to. But I'm surrounded by people in my life that some people are a little more hesitant. Want to dip the toe and then depth of dip the foot and then see,

Jeff Ma  
I think, I think that's the norm. Yeah, I think 99% of people are, are adverse to change and trying new things, and they want to be kind of given the path to success. I think that's a lot of that's to me, human nature in trying to protect ourselves and take the safe route and things like that. So when I hear your passion, it makes me uncomfortable. To be honest, I'm like, Oh my gosh. So I think, I think it's amazing, and that's such a to me. It's a rare, a rare trait. So I asked that question,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
yeah, I Jeff, I do think we all do it in our own way. Because for me, that's actually the same as someone dipping their toe. It's just I don't know that I would see it as that much different, because the adventure, the challenge, the figuring things out, we all kind of lean towards doing it in the way that is more in alignment with our personality, the way that we approach life. And so I totally hear what you're saying, Yeah, and I agree we all do it different, but I don't know that you

Jeff Ma  
just have a bigger toe than most. There we go. There's just more surface area on the toe that you dip in,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
well, and that's, and that's where, when you ask, what, what? What am I passionate about? It's when I live my life that way. I've noticed that I start to attract that out of people as well. So the people I spend time with start taking a little more chances, a little more risk, open themselves up a little bit more. Yesterday, I was in a meeting where they're like, Jake, you're really good at getting the deep darkies out of people and, like, kind of helping us break through and move forward and do those kind of things and and I think a big part of that Jeff just comes from living a lot of my life a little bit more from holding myself back from like a guilt and a shame standpoint and not supposed to want that. That's the wrong way to do it. And I think it's finally just embracing that. That is how I approach life. And when I do that, it kind of attracts that out of the people I'm around as well, and then we all kind of just go on a fun adventure together.

Jeff Ma  
I love that. I think that's something I definitely strive for, personally, is to try to, like, do things from a better place and not out of what you should be doing and what others say or think you should be doing. Is that something that you developed more over time, or do you find that something just innately in the spirit of what you've always done,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
absolutely developed. I would say my 20s, was all in on building the life I thought I was supposed to live. I turned 40 this year, and I feel like it's a little bit more of that midlife crisis where you say, Okay, I knew the mountain I was supposed to climb. I climbed that sucker, and it wasn't what I thought it was, and it didn't feel the way I thought it was. So now, what right like? Now, what? And do I want to keep doing this for everyone else and what I think it's supposed to be? Or do I want to kind of decide that for myself and have the courage to step into that. And so I would say, through experience and some pain and suffering and learning and those types of things, I would say more, kind of like my mid to late 30s, is more having the confidence to step fully into that and still kind of figuring it out. To be honest,

Jeff Ma  
I am also turning 40 this year, so now I too have joined you in this midlife crisis journey. But hey, they say 40 is the new 30. Obviously, that's what people tell me go when they hear I'm 40. Let's talk about, I guess you know, love is a business strategy, the topic that obviously, this is the podcast show. It's all about how we show up. It's all about behaviors and how we treat each other. It's all about really about workplace culture, but really, more importantly, about how we like our mindsets, our attitudes, and how we show up as humans for each other, with each other, alongside each other in conflict and adversity and things like that, just really at the end of the day, it's more of a human show that happens. I mean, the more than it is about work. But work is also a huge percentage of our life, and for most of us, it drives many of our dreams, aspirations, fears and whatnot. So can you talk a little bit about what it means? To you to have you know the element of love, however you define it, but just when it comes to like how you treat every step of your life or every aspect of your life, where does love show up for you, work or otherwise,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
it's a big question. Jeff, well, we'll flow with it and see where it takes. US start somewhere I treat generally. My relationship with everyone is a reflection of how I see myself, right? And so when I find myself trying to fix other people. For example, all that I'm really doing is trying to fix myself right like and I felt like the first half of building. And I've been running my business for about 11 years now, and went from freelance to about 150 people in that decade of time, and the first half was really Jake trying to solve all my insecurities through business. And so I actually felt like that's how I treated everybody else is I'm going to try to fix you and figure this out and assume that you want the same thing, because that's really what I want for myself. So I think our relationships are off. Can often be a reflection of our of my current state of being. And sometimes that works and sometimes that doesn't, but I feel like I kind of tested the limits of that and I didn't like it anymore. I because what it really meant was I had work I needed to do, like inner work, because if I might, if my cups not full, I have nothing to share, and I can't feel someone else's cup from an empty cup. And you and I had chatted about this the first time we connected, but that was what kind of led me to a little bit of that breakdown before the breakthrough, where you know, 50 or so pounds heavier than I am right now, a lot more volatile. Was struggling in my relationship with my wife and three kids, and life just felt really hard. But I had passed the 10 million in annual revenue as a business, and it was profitable, and it was doing well, and I thought all those things were going to I was just a little bit like, what the hell man like? I thought once I accomplished all these things, then I finally feel like I was enough on the inside. And that's just not what was real, right? In fact, I was feeling more insecure as I went down that path, because I felt like I was manipulating myself and manipulating other people to get what I thought I wanted to make me happy, and it wasn't even working anyway. And so I feel like my journey of approaching love as a business model was I can't love anyone until I learned how to do that for myself, and I was very exposed in a marriage counseling session when he asked how the business was doing. And I was excited to tell him how awesome the business and I was and then he then he said, Well, how does your business partner feel about that? And I said, What do you mean? I don't have a business partner. He, like, looked at my wife. He looked back at me, and I was like, Yeah, but she's not my business. Oh, my goodness, yeah, I don't even see and treat her like a partner in my life, you know? And at this point, Jeff, we'd been married for like, 10 years, we had three kids, and I get like, This slap across the face that it's like, what would it be like to be married to someone for 10 years, have three kids with them, and they don't really see and treat you like a partner most of the time, right? They kind of pretend to, but they don't really. And that was kind of like my wake up call moment, because I realized, like, I'm that guy, and I was using business as a justification to show up in my life that way, not just in my in my marriage, but everywhere. I'm not the problem. Look how well my business is doing. You're the problem, right? And so that would be the anti example of showing up with love as a business language.

Jeff Ma  
That's what led me to that, yeah, but that's so powerfully relatable, not not because we've all gone through that exact situation, but I think there is an element of what work and business in our careers hold over us. It all means something different for everyone, but at the same time, it's this irrefutable, like giant part of our life that can oftentimes confuse like our realities and our identities within it, we wrap up like when you meet somebody, Hey, how are you? And you, one of the first facts you ask or share is what you do for a living, as if that is part of who you are. And you know, for some that's more true. In some that's less, but it's, it's a powerful your story is a powerful reminder of kind of the more the other facets that that need to exist alongside of it to make us who we really are. And I think that's, that's a powerful reminder to even begin with. I think when it comes, when it comes to that moment with your with your counselor, and just realizing your, you know, your, your marriage partner wasn't being treated as a partner. What kind of changes happened from that point?

Jacob Baadsgaard  
Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
you know, it's,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
it's always interesting, because it's like an evolution, right? It's, I think the story everyone wants to hear is, and then I got my I got my shit together, and everything was great. Moving forward, the next stage was what I would call the white knuckle stage, the denial and white knuckle stage of like, okay, I recognize I'm contributing to the problem. Okay, I'm going to work on myself. And so I went down the path of, okay, I'm not going to try to fix you anymore. Theresa, I'm going to work on myself. And then I went on a fairly time and money intensive path of trying to fix myself, and that was with different forms of therapy, countless books, developing all the habits, the routines, the all the self help stuff that you can do, and yet it always felt kind of like holding on to something that I felt like was inevitably not going to hold. And so that's what I I don't know that I've ever referred to it as that stage, but it was kind of the white knuckle stage of, like, Okay, I'm gonna fix myself. I'm gonna be good moving forward, right? Like, and all I was really telling myself is that there was something wrong with me the whole time, and that's why it's, like, kind of hard to hold on to that approach to life, because that's a crappy way to live, to think like I'm flawed, I suck, and if I just hold on tight enough to these new habits that like my morning routine and all of these things like, then it solves all my problems. And I was just kind of changing the business as the excuse to like these lifetime these like life routines as, like, the next thing that I was holding on to right, and then all of a sudden you get slippage right, like, at some point you can't hold on to that pull up bar anymore. So I felt like the first stage was, oh, I can see that, like I'm contributing to what's going on around me. Like I need to work on that, then the next stage was, like, the white knuckle, like, Okay, I'm gonna fix it. That's my next project. And I feel like that's what kind of leads a little bit more to that midlife crisis. Because you're like, damn it, that actually doesn't work either. I'm just like, getting my in fact, sometimes it even makes it a little worse. I think it's easy to get addicted to fixing ourselves, healing ourselves, if we use kind of the buzzwords of today, I think it's easy to get addicted to that stuff. And then there's, like, the stage that I'm kind of in right now that I feel like I'm ebbing and flowing between is, well, what if I'm already enough and I just need to do my best today, right? Like, what I wonder, what my life would be like if I did it that way, right? And and then figuring out the things that fill my cup in a way that feels authentic and genuine, which for me, I think you can tell, like, I'm a high energy person. I love a good physical workout almost every day. Like, I like it, just, it's like, my medication. I love it, but now I don't do it because there's something wrong with me that I'm trying to fix with my body look and shape. It's like, no, actually, I just like life more when I get a good sweat on in the morning, you know, or whether that be with the type of books that I like to listen to, or so, then all of a sudden, I'm like, Well, what if I'm enough? And I just find the things that actually fill my cup. And then I started showing up to work, and I started showing up to my family, and they're like, Oh, it was funny. One of those moments of like, Hey, Dad, remember when you used to yell at us a lot? My oldest daughter told me, she's like, that's like, it's been a long time since you've kind of been that guy. And I'm like, Oh yeah, because I think I just get all that yelling out in my workout. So those are kind of the three phases where I feel like, now I'm more into practice, of like, how do I fill my cup? And some days I feel like I feel my cup fantastically, and I show up oozing love to give to everyone around me. And some days, I show up with a super empty cup and still have, like, my rough days as well. And I think I'm just becoming more okay and aware that, like I'm gonna, and I'm and that's probably gonna be the case to some degree moving forward. And. Yeah, that's that's more how I see it, and it shows up at work as well. Like, they know I'm not good at hiding my emotions. And my executive team, they're like, Jake, I can tell you're stressed today. Like, what's going on, man? Like, we've got really open and fun dialog at this point where we don't quite take it so seriously, like we just do

Jeff Ma  
well, you brought it to the next question I was going to, which is bringing into the workplace, seeing as how we still have, we still all work. I mean, everything you said, I really appreciate that, that vulnerability perspective, because everything I'm always talking to people about, and what I'm passionate about starts from this place of self awareness and recognizing, kind of your first phase, right? Like just realizing that you may need a change or have a have an opportunity. But from there, you just showcased how there are two paths to kind of go down, one one of like self deprecation and and shame, guilt and frustration, and the other of channeling into like, positive change and influence around you. And it looks like you went through that journey to discover that. But I wanted to kind of bring it full circle of like, well, now you're back, you know, you're still in a work environment. You still have you have employees, you have co workers, you have colleagues and whatever. How is that translating? Like, what are the kind of the things you're seeing that that take that same kind of cup filling, like potential, and show up at the workplace with it? Like, what does that look like? Because that's when we say, Love is a business strategy. You're kind of hitting, you're you're kind of hitting home exactly the goal. I'm not saying you're doing it perfect or right, but those moments you're painting where your team can come and say, Hey, looks like you're having a bad day, and they can help you through it and bring out your potential for that moment or not. You know, hold it against you or not, brush it under the rug and just completely act like everything's fine, or not. Take it personally. All these little things are like the nuance, things that we think as low as a business strategy, like that's the goal. Like that is what we're looking for in a high performing team where people can really be themselves. Have come cup full or cup empty and help each other through it. What does that look like for you? Is that kind of line up

Jacob Baadsgaard  
absolutely and it's always interesting, the thoughts that come up when you as you're talking and ask the question is, what I've learned is that my clarity is what leads to the team's confidence and the synergy that happens amongst us, because I am still the like the owner of the business, the CEO, those types of things. And if I'm not bringing a vision with a level of clarity, everyone's kind of guessing what it is. Why are we even here, right? And it makes it challenging in that level of unknown that brings up feelings of scarcity and fear and whatever, and for the longest time, I started evolving into, well, what does everyone else want this business to be? How do I keep everyone happy that's working here? And what? And and what I realized is that that actually led to a lot less love, as in the office place, because it meant a, I wasn't loving myself, and B, I wasn't bringing clarity. And I've got a team that now we've got, we've got clarity in who we are as a business and where we're going that isn't overly attached to the numbers and things that it has to be. Of course, we still have goals and are disciplined in the way that we run business, but as I've gotten more clear of this is the type of business that inspires me to be a part of. This is who we are. This is where we're going. How do you connect with that? Right? Is that something that you feel like aligns with who you are and where you want to go? And when there's that level of clarity, then I asked my head of marketing, for example, how would you get us there with with the area that you're responsible for? Now it's I'm more set clarity of where we're going, why it matters. And then I ask the team, how would you how would you want to do that? How do you want to get us there? And then all of a sudden, we have alignment on vision, and I'm not telling them how to do their job anymore. I'm just saying once we're aligned. Now you tell me how we're going to do that, right? And that's, that's what I've learned as in my evolution as a leader, that once I start making sure a, there's a clear vision, B, I'm aligned with the people I'm working with for that vision, not trying to keep them happy with it, but like it is what it is, you know, they align or they don't, and when they do align, then I just ask the question of, awesome. Now how? How are you going to do it, man? And that's where I feel like, that's when the love and the connection and the synergy just starts to flow, because there's trust, there's alignment. And I'm not like micro. Managing or getting into their business in a way that that doesn't work? Yeah,

Jeff Ma  
you mentioned that this phase you're in is a bit of an ebb and flow. Can you can you talk about some of the some of the times where you're still struggling? Can you talk about kind of where it still shows up, maybe in the wrong way, and you're still maybe having to pivot, like, how do you, what does that look like, and what do you? What do you do about it? Yeah,

Jacob Baadsgaard  
I don't know what rating we have on this go for podcast. So I would just say, like, it's the, it's the WHAT THE FUCK syndrome that I would call it where, hey, I learned all the lessons, I did all the hard things, and now life's supposed to be easy, right? Like the that's the trick that I still fall for sometimes, because, just because I had an epiphany once, there's this part of me that doesn't want to have to have an epiphany again, because it's a little painful to work through those things, right? So, like, and it's these moments of, like, I love my wife, we're committed. But like, when we have a challenging day or week or month or whatever that is, it's like, I thought we figured this out, like I thought we were in a good spot now, and here we are still, like, fighting about this dumb thing or whatever, and then that judgment and shame that comes back up of like, Oh, I thought I figured this one out. The from a business standpoint, I'm a I'm all in on the business, not looking to sell it. And I like to think I'm like, this altruistic. I actually give 30% of the profits back to the business. Do all these things that I think is like, Oh, I don't care about money anymore, and it's all good. But then, like, the second we have a we made some miscalculations and some comp modeling, things that we did, or forecasting for the business, and then all of a sudden, it takes us six months to, like, get our margin back to that healthy level. And all of a sudden I realize whether I'm attached to the money or not, right? And then have my moments of like, dang it. Like this is, this is so frustrating. And I thought I didn't care as much about the money anymore. I thought I didn't care. I thought I was okay with the team making the mistakes. But here I am, literally this week, Jeff waking up at 330 just feeling like stressed about some of those things, you know? And so that's where it really is, the the WTF. It's still life. It still comes with all the ups and downs. And that's where I try to recenter and just get back into the practice of, okay, what am I learning? How am I going to grow from this? How do I take this and move forward and allow myself to like feel it as well.

Jeff Ma  
That is so powerful. And what a great way to articulate I'm going to clip this section and use it for people that, that we that I talk to regularly, who I mean it, you're it's a great reminder the way you framed it, of just the human condition that we forget to factor in, because I think a lot of businesses, a lot of folks that we chat with who want to apply love as a business strategy or any culture change, for that matter, to their organization, there's this idea that they can just spend X amount of dollars, or invest X number of people for X number of hours to this initiative and culture is fixed, you know, like, just dust off your hands. You know you're good to go. And there's, there's this reality of how humans work, is that we are a constant, evolving work in progress. And if it's not one thing today, it's gonna be nothing tomorrow. And real culture change comes by way of adapting how we how we figure those things out together, not necessarily one change, but how we adapt to many changes in perpetuity together. And your story just really kind of inspired me. Reminded me of that, of the fact that, like, whether you're talking about a team, an individual, a team or organization, we are humans at the end of the day, which means that we are going to ebb and flow. We're never going to make it. We have to be able to continue learning and having the next big epiphany and the next big goal and the willingness to change through it. So I thought that was just an incredibly powerful way you framed that for yourself, and I appreciate you sharing that vulnerably is

Jacob Baadsgaard  
awesome. Thanks. Jeff,

Jeff Ma  
Well, Jake, I I loved today's conversation. I think I get a lot of chances to talk about how businesses operate and how leadership should be done. It was incredibly poignant and important to have this conversation with you just I appreciate you bringing yourself to this conversation and sharing kind of openly. Your experiences and the realities that you face. Because I think there's so much value in this for the listener to connect at a human level and just kind of not make it all about the work and in business, because at the end of the day, that's what it's about. So thank you so much for what you shared today and joining today. Jake, Thanks, Jeff, is there anything you'd like to share with listeners? I know whether it's about disruptive advertising or whether you know just any other way to reach out to you, any anything you want to share or plug.

Jacob Baadsgaard  
Best place to connect with me personally is on LinkedIn. That's where I'm the most active. And everything that we've talked about are tools and principles that I've taught in my agency for the last decade. And we've actually put that into an awesome program that we're making available to the world. And it's at disruptive university.com, it's, it's currently very limited in terms of the people we have going through it as we work out some of the kinks. But if that's interesting to you, should check it out.

Jeff Ma  
Definitely awesome, Jake. Thank you so much for your time and to listeners, thank you so much for tuning in as always. As you may have already noticed, we are on a posting every two week schedule after several years of every one week, but hopefully it's still great for everybody as you, as you see, we have folks like Jake lined up for you and like awesome conversations coming through. So stay tuned. Give us your feedback. Check out our book love as a business strategy if you haven't. And with that, we appreciate everybody. We'll see you all next week.

Unknown Speaker  
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